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rel="nofollow">coach outlet</a>, <a href="http://www.longchamphandbags.us.com/" rel="nofollow">longchamp handbags</a>, <a href="http://www.louisvuittonhandbags.in.net/" rel="nofollow">louis vuitton handbags</a>, <a href="http://www.coachpurses.in.net/" rel="nofollow">coach purses</a>, <a href="http://www.christianlouboutin-outlet.in.net/" rel="nofollow">christian louboutin outlet</a>oakleyseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02221561593432696548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132564630470272172005-11-21T01:17:00.000-08:002005-11-21T01:17:00.000-08:00ii,Communal living is voluntary, where Communism/M...ii,<BR/><BR/>Communal living is voluntary, where Communism/Marxism is forced.<BR/><BR/>I don't think a hippy commune is really marxist as long as you can leave.<BR/><BR/>The problem with Socialism and Communism is the freedom that is destroyed by the "force" of government to meddle in the affairs of the individual, by way of trying to be epithetic with the plight of others.<BR/><BR/>I am morally responsible for the poor around me, but when I am "forced" to help him, I am no longer free. This is the problem with Socialism and Communism.<BR/><BR/>Those in power such as Mao, Stalin, and current Socialist/Communist leaders want to force their form of "help" on everyone so they can be the "government knows best" hero.<BR/><BR/>It is morally wrong to "force" others, even if the result is good. The end never justifies the means. This is my main contention with sts.<BR/><BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><BR/>FAR.Free Agency Ruleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10921822140156223630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132183345497242302005-11-16T15:22:00.000-08:002005-11-16T15:22:00.000-08:0011 16 05Hello:I am late here so this will be my la...11 16 05<BR/><BR/>Hello:<BR/>I am late here so this will be my last post on this thread. I honestly do think that communism is the antithesis to democracy because Marxism has to be applied from somewhere. Whe he spoke of each according to his needs and abilities, I always ask who is making the determination of what one needs or wants? I cannot think of any case ever where democracy and Marxism got along for any length of time. Socialist liberal states in Europe and of course Canada try, but are still into private property which is not allowable. <BR/><BR/>Yes Stalin:<BR/>I do think that authoratarianism is the antithesis to democracy. My point is that Marxism is necessarily authoritarian.<BR/><BR/>II: I did a post about how ethics are derived in our society yesterday. I realize that a truly participatory democracy never works and view our democratic republic as respect for the masses, but respect for the individual as well. <BR/><BR/>Thx for engaging and sorry about the tiff you and Patrick got in. He really feels strongly about communists and I can't say I blame him for the feelings, I just like to read your blog and think about what you say:) Good day:)Mahndisa S. Rigmaidenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08507292526980604567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132182055925236002005-11-16T15:00:00.000-08:002005-11-16T15:00:00.000-08:00Yeah, hippie; your ad piscem attack only illustrat...Yeah, hippie; your ad piscem attack only illustrates that you have little of substance to say.<BR/><BR/>:-), StSMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132164804069692652005-11-16T10:13:00.000-08:002005-11-16T10:13:00.000-08:00Mahndisa - democracy is not the antithesis of comm...Mahndisa - democracy is not the antithesis of communism. Indeed, they can make strange bedfellows. America is not a democracy, it is a republic and the distinction is critical. In a democracy, the majority can deprive the minority of its rights by voting. Thus, the majority can vote to impose communism and, in democracy, that is okay. Democracy is a crass form of tyranny. <BR/><BR/>In a republic, like America, the minority is protected by a constitution and rules of law that cannot be voted away by the majority. The very essence of the Constitution is the protection of minority rights. The people have the right to elect representatives, but those representatives swear to uphold the Constitution (not the will of the majority of the constituency). <BR/><BR/>Patrick - I want to make sure I understand your point. Marxism is government action whereas communalism is at the individual level? <BR/><BR/>Once you get passed your initial philosophical disagreements, you will find the stuffed plush shark to be quite intelligent and humorous. He has managed to gain respect with some pretty hard-core right wingers with the cogency of his arguments. If you ever go to rosevilleconservative.blogspot.com,you will find some pretty entertaining debates. :-)<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, we are all on the quest for truth and all of you are travelers on that path. Whether we all agree or not, a great deal of respect is due to those who make the effort of the journey. It's a rarity these days in our Britney Spears world.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132113060318759102005-11-15T19:51:00.000-08:002005-11-15T19:51:00.000-08:00II said: What is your distinction between Marxism ...II said: <I>What is your distinction between Marxism and communalism?</I><BR/><BR/>The short answer is: Statism and government. But communalism also has it's downside: <A HREF="http://bornagainredneck.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Collectivism vs Individualism.</A><BR/><BR/>And how anyone can take an anomymous sock with a cap seriously beats me.<BR/><BR/>It's not semantics, II. Only rich people with no worries can afford semantics and allergies. ;)Jouberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04970872086435575755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132104157864408842005-11-15T17:22:00.000-08:002005-11-15T17:22:00.000-08:00Mahndisa,one does not lecture Stalin the Shark; it...Mahndisa,<BR/><BR/>one does not lecture Stalin the Shark; it makes him very irritated indeed, especially if the lecture contains assertions not made. <BR/><BR/>The opposite of democracy is authoritarianism, whatever flavor it takes at a given moment. There's no practical diference between people who thump Das Kapital or thump the bible. Anyone who claims to have all the answers based on whatever dead text they present is a priori categorically wrong in my book, end of story. The problem with this patrick person is simply that he is incapable of making the perhaps too-fine distinction that there are forms of communal action that do not veer into totalitarianism; indeed, that's what our society is built on. <BR/><BR/>Democracy can't exist without either communal action or individual self-determination; too bad the ideologues, whatever camp they claim to belong to, can't see that. <BR/><BR/>:-), StSMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132101900622025732005-11-15T16:45:00.000-08:002005-11-15T16:45:00.000-08:0011 15 05II: I am certainly late to this discussion...11 15 05<BR/><BR/>II: I am certainly late to this discussion, but covered what Marx called primitive communism on the blog today. I dealt with how family structures are inherently communalistic, which ain't the same as Marxian. Also there ain't ever been a truly communist (Marxian) place. Democracy is the antithesis of Marxism and Stalin you know this!Mahndisa S. Rigmaidenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08507292526980604567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132101135384943192005-11-15T16:32:00.000-08:002005-11-15T16:32:00.000-08:00Patrick - perhaps we are having a semantic misunde...Patrick - perhaps we are having a semantic misunderstanding. In my view, Marxism/communism are interchangeable and include what you call "communalism". And if people voluntarily choose that organization for themselves, it does not seem problematic to me. Like I said before, if it is imposed upon people, that is evil as we have seen in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. <BR/><BR/>What is your distinction between Marxism and communalism?Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132097947443531052005-11-15T15:39:00.000-08:002005-11-15T15:39:00.000-08:00Fair enough, II.You said: you never answered why y...Fair enough, II.<BR/><BR/>You said: <I>you never answered why you would have any objection to anyone voluntarily choosing to live in a commune.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't have any objection to it. I lived in several hippie communes in the Sixties, and while they may not have been Utopia, they were were very interesting and educative - and all ultimately failed because they were based on freedom and were not coercive.<BR/><BR/>But communes are not communism (even if inspired by Marxist/Leninism or more accurately Marxist/John Lennonism.) They are more about "communalism."Jouberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04970872086435575755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132082937081632172005-11-15T11:28:00.000-08:002005-11-15T11:28:00.000-08:00Thanks Stalin. You said it better than I could ha...Thanks Stalin. You said it better than I could have. <BR/><BR/>Patrick - you never answered why you would have any objection to anyone voluntarily choosing to live in a commune. Isn't voluntary action the essence of freedom? <BR/><BR/>Since I have never been de-linked before, I can't say I am terribly traumatized, but I think it speaks more to your character that you linked me then unlinked me in the span of a week based on me either completely agreeing with you or saying something with which you entirely disagree. It is apparent, and quite relevant to the subject of my post, that you withdraw from the discussion when a meaningful sign of disagreement arises. That is unfortunate as I genuinely enjoyed our exchanges. You are still welcome here anytime.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132078235854263772005-11-15T10:10:00.000-08:002005-11-15T10:10:00.000-08:00The contention that 'communism is always imposed b...The contention that 'communism is always imposed by force' is factually erroneous; in fact, communist parties have won victories at the ballot box on several continents, especially in the inter-war years. <BR/><BR/>This Patrick person claims to be a 'reformed ultra-leftist', which claim he undergirds by noting his conversion to right-wing extremism; problem is, as I often argue, that this transition from one extreme to the other doesn't involve any change in the underlying absolutist outlook, only a change in what exactly to be absolutist about. <BR/><BR/>Thus, the snit about removing a link to the heretic reminds me of the dogmatic battles between factions on the ultra-left. hard right and hard left are more similar than you think, and here is yet another example of that.<BR/><BR/>:-), StSMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132068565467027472005-11-15T07:29:00.000-08:002005-11-15T07:29:00.000-08:00You said: I don't think Marxism is evil in and of ...You said: <I>I don't think Marxism is evil in and of itself. It is evil when it is imposed top down...</I><BR/><BR/>Boy, that tells me a lot more about you than I had guessed and confirms for me why I dislike libertarians. Marxism always has to be imposed. It is the exact antithesis of freedom. Just ask the 100 million people who had it imposed on them - oh, sorry - you can't. They were slaughtered to bring about the great ideal of "social equality."<BR/><BR/>I am going to remove my link to your blog.Jouberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04970872086435575755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1132009072205981352005-11-14T14:57:00.000-08:002005-11-14T14:57:00.000-08:00BOB, You get rid of the Batistas, but you don't ki...BOB, <BR/><BR/>You get rid of the Batistas, but you don't kill off anyone who disagrees with you if they don't take up arms against you. We can agree to disagree, but I think it's a contradiction in terms to have a revolution for "the people" and then self-select who is allowed to benefit from the revolution. Can you imagine what a disaster America would be if the victorious norterners simply slaughtered everyone in the south?Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1131995258096262292005-11-14T11:07:00.000-08:002005-11-14T11:07:00.000-08:00You don't incorporate your enemy. You figure out ...You don't incorporate your enemy. You figure out which people can be of use to you and see if you can interest them in a position within your own ranks. <BR/><BR/>Hitler didn't attack all Jews at the beginning. During one of his first calls for a boycott of Jewish businesses, he exempted the big businesses with many employess from the boycott. He knew that boycotting larger business would leave even more people unemployed at a very bad time in the German economy. Hitler didn't snatch power all at once. He did it slowly and in a very calculated fashion. It was very Machiavellian.<BR/><BR/>Castro and Che, on the other hand, snatched it and destroyed the economy in the process. You can't have a glorious revolution without having an idea of how to keep businesses running and people employed. <BR/><BR/>Idle hands lead to revolution.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1131993986458385152005-11-14T10:46:00.000-08:002005-11-14T10:46:00.000-08:00It was fine to get rid of Batista supporters, but ...It was fine to get rid of Batista supporters, but supporter isn't every person who thought Batista was a swell guy. Of course they were going to get rid of his cadre, but I think there was room to incorporate others. Tying into Chad's comment, some people want power and aren't too concerned with who they have to ally themselves with to get it. Attacking everyone indiscriminately is not just tyranny, it is unwise politically. <BR/><BR/>Although I must commend Castro for remaining in power all this time. He must be a bad ass to have dodged assassination and prevented revolution all these years.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1131992706792763722005-11-14T10:25:00.000-08:002005-11-14T10:25:00.000-08:00BOB - Tyrant is defined as "a ruler who exercises ...BOB - <BR/><BR/>Tyrant is defined as "a ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner." Is there a dispute that this applies to Che, regardless of whether he was in Cuba for 2 years or 50 years? Che was part of the early purges of the Batistas (he personally acted as judge in the "trials" of the Batistas that were followed by executions). Is there a dispute on that? He played a huge role in shaping the political philosophy of the regime. Correct?Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1131992138684205252005-11-14T10:15:00.000-08:002005-11-14T10:15:00.000-08:00Excellent post, as always.Really thought provoking...Excellent post, as always.<BR/>Really thought provoking and well crafted.<BR/>I think the one big hitch is that for the push and pull of debate to actually work it requires a lot of interactivity and, unfortunately, the US is a hotbed of ambivalence. Political activity seems to be strongest at the extremes - like an inverted bell curve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1131988036321031592005-11-14T09:07:00.000-08:002005-11-14T09:07:00.000-08:00Chad - I think that power gives one the opportunit...Chad - I think that power gives one the opportunity and the means to impose their views on other, but the desire to do so is there in "less" powerful people. It amazes me how people in America are salivating at the possibility of bombing more countries in the name of freedom, even if those countries did nothing to us. It's pathological. Another blogger wrote a good post on a similar issue: http://fogghorn.blogspot.com/2005/11/beast.html.<BR/><BR/>You are right though, power corrupts. <BR/><BR/>Patrick - I don't think Marxism is evil in and of itself. It is evil when it is imposed top down, but then again most things are evil when they are force fed involuntarily. I raised the question in the post about objections others would have to those who voluntarily choose to live in a commune. If it's a voluntary decision, what is wrong with that? I haven't read much on Locke, but I would assume that freedom of choice is the essence of his liberalism.<BR/>BTW - I tried to link to your blog and FAR's in the post, but the links wouldn't work. It's really frustrating.<BR/><BR/>StS - thank you for such a cool compliment. I will certainly think about writing about both men as soon as I read enough about them to feel like I really understand their philosphies. <BR/><BR/>Without having read "Che" by Jon Anderson, I wouln't have been comfortable to discuss Mr. Guevara. It's a great book. Anderson didn't paint Che as a magnificent hero, just the imperfect person we all are.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.com