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Keep working. Will return in the n...Very best site. Keep working. Will return in the near future.<BR/><A HREF="http://gekst.at/notebook_dell.html" REL="nofollow">»</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153446264281403442006-07-20T18:44:00.000-07:002006-07-20T18:44:00.000-07:00BTW, I believe it's "schizophrenic". Is there a P ...BTW, I believe it's "schizophrenic". Is there a P up front there?<BR/><BR/>:-), StSMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153422952512357982006-07-20T12:15:00.000-07:002006-07-20T12:15:00.000-07:00Anon - That is very true! So true.Anon - <BR/><BR/>That is very true! So true.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153408350593868902006-07-20T08:12:00.000-07:002006-07-20T08:12:00.000-07:00II-The Palestinian people voted for them. Isn't th...II-<I>The Palestinian people voted for them. Isn't that legitimacy enough?</I><BR/><BR/>It should be but the US and Israel did not like the results. It's that simple. We never gave them a chance and under cut them from the get go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153352214193497632006-07-19T16:36:00.000-07:002006-07-19T16:36:00.000-07:00Well, fair enough. I didn't mean to spoil the fun...Well, fair enough. I didn't mean to spoil the fun... really.<BR/><BR/>II (and yes, Leo, you too) we'll have to agree to disagree. Although I think we might agree on the main points. I am slammed right now but will try to write more later.Noisettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330103110504278026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153345010639336112006-07-19T14:36:00.000-07:002006-07-19T14:36:00.000-07:00Yikes guys, it does not need to be so heated. Not...Yikes guys, it does not need to be so heated. Not sure where the conversation degenerated, but can we play nice in the sandbox?<BR/><BR/>Leo doesn't offend me and can post here because he and I have already gone to blows on various other blogs. I assume he and Sharky have done so as well, so we all have a rapport established. <BR/><BR/>And, for once in a rare blue moon, I actually get the point Leo is making here and agree with the distinction between Hizballah and Hamas(who knew that would ever happen?) <BR/><BR/>Why should Hamas' legitimacy be tied to the blessings of the international community? The Palestinian people voted for them. Isn't that legitimacy enough? Why should the UN have the right to essentially annul a democratic election?Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153342921321684392006-07-19T14:02:00.000-07:002006-07-19T14:02:00.000-07:00Hehe.RoR, to be fair, I'm the one who called Leo a...Hehe.<BR/><BR/>RoR, to be fair, I'm the one who called Leo a loser; we do this from time to time. There's a history here, where insults fly back and forth. I find him amusing.<BR/><BR/>Noisette, as above, if you argue with Leo's deep wisdom - acquired where I don't know, SE Asia kiddie brothels perhaps - you'll face some feces-throwing. It's standard. In this case, you're a Bush-hater 'cuz, well, you just are. It's hot, so creativity is a casualty. "Nosey-ette" isn't the best he's come up with, but no doubt some improvement is shortly to be expected.<BR/><BR/>:=], StSMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153334331424479112006-07-19T11:38:00.000-07:002006-07-19T11:38:00.000-07:00TOO subtle. Writing quickly; bad grammar.TOO subtle. Writing quickly; bad grammar.Noisettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330103110504278026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153334248762704002006-07-19T11:37:00.000-07:002006-07-19T11:37:00.000-07:00Hey. That's enough. I called your argument wrong...Hey. That's enough. I called your argument wrong, I never insulted you personally. You could be St. Theresa for all I know or care. You attacked my reasoning, I responded in kind. What the hell is "Nosey-ette?" Do you think you lend credence to your argument by calling people names? Are you 8 years old?<BR/><BR/>I actually agree that Israel should not be holding the Government of Lebanon to account for Hezbollah, the militant wing of which they cannot control. My point (apparently to subtle for you), was that Hamas has not earned international legitimacy, and that Hezbollah cannot be characterized as a rogue entity as they currently control the largest block in Lebanese Parliament.<BR/><BR/>BTW, even if II and I do disagree, as we do at times, I am hardly going to stoop to calling her some sort of asinine name. I'll leave that to you.Noisettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330103110504278026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153317773537821072006-07-19T07:02:00.000-07:002006-07-19T07:02:00.000-07:00It makes sense that Hamas is an independent nation...It makes sense that Hamas is an independent nation. If the Republicans picked a fight, would they not be considered the rulers of this country?<BR/><BR/>As for Hizballah, it is not the government of Lebanon. Even if Independents or Greens win a handful of seats does not mean America should be collectively made to answer for any actions they may take.Intellectual Insurgenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01436312941542559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153276765097700442006-07-18T19:39:00.000-07:002006-07-18T19:39:00.000-07:00II - Hello from the NV desert.Interesting thread. ...II - Hello from the NV desert.<BR/><BR/>Interesting thread. Some good points and perspective.<BR/><BR/>Only one question: somewhat off topic.<BR/><BR/>Why do you let Leo post? Reading through his rambling is a waste of time… And Stalin, why do you bother giving him a history lesson? You’re facts and recounting of history; the relationship of the various organizations involved, is obvious lost on someone who’s retort is to call you a ‘loser’.<BR/><BR/>I think the issues have already been stated… While I fully support Israeli’s right to deal with Hezbollah’s presence in south Lebanon, I’m also saddened by what’s happening to Beirut – a city that was just getting back on its feet.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, the escalation in violence plays right into Hezbollah’s hands: it’ll incite the moderate Lebanese – pushing some into Hezbollah’s camp.RRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12196333516263804947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153273845780710602006-07-18T18:50:00.000-07:002006-07-18T18:50:00.000-07:00For your education:"International Community Cuts T...For your education:<BR/><BR/>"International Community Cuts Ties to Hamas Government" (March, 2006)<BR/><BR/>http://www.ifes.org/files/releases/03_31_2006_HammasCabinet.pdf<BR/><BR/>"Israel said that the Lebanese government is responsible for the actions of Hezbollah, which is a member of the governing coalition."<BR/><BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/world/middleeast/13cnd-mideast.html?_r=1&oref=slogin<BR/><BR/>Leo, you're wrong. Pure and simple.Noisettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330103110504278026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153268607523170462006-07-18T17:23:00.000-07:002006-07-18T17:23:00.000-07:00Noisette is right; this entire mess came about pre...Noisette is right; this entire mess came about precisely because one arm of Hezbollah is represented in the Lebanese parliament, giving rise to Israel's argument that the Hezbollah incursion was an act of war by a sovereign state.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153264883384731452006-07-18T16:21:00.000-07:002006-07-18T16:21:00.000-07:00Israel needs a constant hands on approach in the p...Israel needs a constant hands on approach in the peace process to keep the bloodshed at a minimum. <BR/><BR/>Israel should be targeting Hezbollah not the civilian infrastructure power plants, airport, bridges etc.. but like hamas in the Palistinian elections Hezbollah is an elected part of the government of Lebenon (isn't democracy fun) so I guess that gives the Israeli's the pretext for collective punishment.<BR/><BR/>Just because a president does not get a signed peace accord does not mean failure. The process itself while seemingly never ending helps keep things contained. Bush's hands off approach (let Israel do what it wants) runs the risk of continued escalation.<BR/><BR/>From 2000<BR/><I>Asked about the latest bombings in Tel Aviv and Gaza, Clinton responded, "I think that this latest violence only reminds people of what the alternative to peace is."<BR/><BR/>"There are a lot of enemies of peace in the Middle East," he added.<BR/><BR/>Clinton said that "it would be up to the next administration" to propose any official work that he might be asked to do, such as continuing to mediate the Middle East peace process.</I><BR/><BR/>I guess peace is over rated anyway.<BR/><A HREF="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060718/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=A0SOwmm.ar1E2lMASRms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--" REL="nofollow">send ground forces into Lebanon, raising doubts about international efforts to broker an immediate cease-fire in the fighting that has killed more than 260 people and displaced 500,000.</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153263051189526102006-07-18T15:50:00.000-07:002006-07-18T15:50:00.000-07:00Leo, is it? "Hezbullah?? They're not a form of gov...Leo, is it? <BR/>"Hezbullah?? They're not a form of govt, they weren't elected and they represent no govt/national interests, except for their puppet masters in Syria and Iran. So, again, you're slow."<BR/><BR/>AAACTUALLY...<BR/><BR/>(from Wikipedia, but you'll find this anywhere): "The civilian wing [of Hezbollah] participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking 18% of the seats (23 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the "Resistance and Development Bloc", 27,3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet."<BR/><BR/>Not elected? You sure?<BR/><BR/>NOW who's "slow"...Noisettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330103110504278026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153257642338239592006-07-18T14:20:00.000-07:002006-07-18T14:20:00.000-07:00Naw. The Palestinian Authority was cut off from ev...Naw. The Palestinian Authority was cut off from everything immediately when Hamas came in; if anything, that election weakened Hamas. The game-changer about that election was and is that the foreign policy establishment has become very skeptical about the 'peace process'; all the talk and kumbayah about peace aside, there's no popular support for it. Notice how you don't hear about any peace process any more from anyone.<BR/><BR/>What has not changed is the calculation of the U.S. national interest - that Bolshevik concept again - which says that we do not usurp the security functions of Israel, because <BR/><BR/>a) they know what they're doing, and<BR/>b) we have no interest whatsoever in getting involved in the West Bank. We have Iraq, that's enough. <BR/><BR/>Basically, this is the Chechnya/Kashmir calculation: it's someone else's problem, and we're not getting involved.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153248509458841752006-07-18T11:48:00.000-07:002006-07-18T11:48:00.000-07:00Yeah, Leo, right. So where does your in-depth know...Yeah, Leo, right. So where does your in-depth knowledge of the terrorist mind come from - crying yourself to sleep 'cuz you're scared about your local Wal-Mart?<BR/><BR/>Feh. Loser.<BR/><BR/>The good thing about Hamas, and why I say they're not our concern, is that the whole region hates their guts. That's because they're a part of the 'Muslim Brotherhood', another group, which is Public Enemy #1 in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria. Ever wonder why Israel can thrash them with complete impunity? Because the rest of the region likes what Israel is doing to them. The Syrians eradicated the entire city of Hama in 1982 over a Muslim Brotherhood revolt - wonder how they feel about Hamas? By 'eradicate', I mean 'level the city and kill its people', BTW. So no, Hamas is a local problem.<BR/><BR/>Hezbollah, meanwhile, is a Shi'ite proxy of Iran. You do the math on whether Sunni Arabs are going to cheer for them, let alone help them. Ain't gonna happen. Here's a clue: Saudi Arabia introduced a resolution against them. This because they see what wingers here don't, which is that this is a diversionary maneuver by Iran trying to deflect UN security council resolutions. <BR/><BR/>And now go sell some of our ports to North Korea, Leo. You know you want to.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153242720666335402006-07-18T10:12:00.000-07:002006-07-18T10:12:00.000-07:00Off TopicHe Hu Laughs Last, Laughs LoudestOff Topic<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2006/07/he_hu_laughs_la.html" REL="nofollow">He Hu Laughs Last, Laughs Loudest</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153233081641722972006-07-18T07:31:00.000-07:002006-07-18T07:31:00.000-07:00A moderate Saudi Arabia that is rich.Why would the...A moderate Saudi Arabia that is rich.<BR/><BR/>Why would the Saudis take that stance, well I think this is coming down to a Sunni vs. Shia with the west thrown in for good measure.<BR/><BR/>There is a split in the Muslim world between Sunni and Shia. Shia run countries Iran, Syria and now Iraq (still U.S. run. Saudi Arabia has a large Shia minority and fear civil war. Just my rambling Opinion.<BR/><BR/>Besides-<A HREF="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13912000/" REL="nofollow"> Fighting over within weeks, Israeli official says<BR/>Major-general says army has ‘clear goals’; 11 Lebanese soldiers killed</A> <I>at least 220 people dead in Lebanon and 24 in Israel.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153197152376818412006-07-17T21:32:00.000-07:002006-07-17T21:32:00.000-07:00Leo, I didn't watch 9/11 on TV.I watched it from m...Leo, I didn't watch 9/11 on TV.<BR/><BR/>I watched it from my dining room window three miles away. So if you're here to lecture about how deeply you understand terrorism, with all due respect, blow me, because you have no clue what you're talking about. The days when all you righties had to do to justify every piece of crap to come down the turnpike was say "9/11. Remember 9/11" are over - a crappy track record will do that. <BR/><BR/>U.S. policy towards Middle Eastern terror groups has always been to let Israel handle Israeli security concerns, with the simple reasoning that it's not in our (or their) national interest to supplant their security decision-making process. That's been U.S. policy since 1948, and other than some traitor draft-dodgers like Bill Kristol and Newt Gingrich, plus the requisite flying monkeys, nobody sane is arguing for a change in that approach. hamas and Hezbollah are Israeli problems unless and until wecome to the conclusion that they are in danger of being overwhelmed, in which case we consider it in our national interest to get involved. That's the threshhold: the survival, not the convenience, of israel.<BR/><BR/>But then again, these days, a concept like 'analyzing the national interest' is the same kind of far-left heresy as 'balancing the budget'.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153153059792024772006-07-17T09:17:00.000-07:002006-07-17T09:17:00.000-07:00Somewhat off-topic, but I take great comfort in th...Somewhat off-topic, but I take great comfort in the obvious inadequacy of the Hillary team. I think tht's the first time I've seen the word 'homophobic' applied to a bombing campaign.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05712880940637331771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11470309.post-1153143014899299642006-07-17T06:30:00.000-07:002006-07-17T06:30:00.000-07:00Fact is fact. Hizbowlallah jsut wanted Israel to ...Fact is fact. Hizbowlallah jsut wanted Israel to know how all this kid nabbing feels. A trade was all work out make shure no harm come to nobody because Israel just kidnabb a lot of Muslims/<I> peronnes holy </I>. what is that do? Isarel goes back on trade and start to bomb. Hizbowlallah just wants provide for lesbanese, but Israel is so homophobic they just bomb and bomb and bomb.Hillary for Presidenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14869042674911833609noreply@blogger.com