Wednesday, June 28, 2006

Thou Dost Protest Much

When people overuse comparisons to Hitler to make a point, the validity of what they are saying is overshadowed by the misuse of the imagery. Hitler is Hitler. There are few people on earth who will ever earn that level of infamy. While some tactics may be Nazi-like and Hitler-esque, most evil people are in a class all their own. Like Ann Coulter. Ann Coulter is Ann Coulter.

That is why an article I read recently, comparing Wafa Sultan to Ann Coulter, really irritated me.

Wafa Sultan, if you do not know, is a Syrian woman who debated a freak holyroller on Al Jazeera back in February, upsetting the Muslim world with choice tidbits like "Islam cannot be reformed" and "Only Arab Muslims can read the Koran properly because you have to speak Arabic to know what it means — you cannot translate it." Under the protection of the United States of America, to where she immigrated in 1989, Ms. Sultan has become a hero for parroting criticisms of the religion that have landed thousands of others -- people with real courage -- in the jails or graves of nations ruled by America's allies. Although nothing she says is original or particularly courageous, she has dethroned Irshad Manji to become the supreme angry Muslim chick to interview on Fox News.

But she is not Ann Coulter. To compare Ms. Sultan to the grand Nazi satan-worshipping empress of America is too flattering to Ms. Coulter. Ms. Sultan is not saying anything that has not been said before. Indeed, 99 percent of what she says is true and the other one percent is up for debate. The same cannot be said of our darling Annie. It is true that Islam cannot be reformed. No religion can be. Take it or leave it. You either like it or you do not. If you do not like it, find another religion that suits you. Similarly, Arabs do think they own Islam because of the unique nuances of the Arabic language (even though they are the minority racial group) and there are few mosques that will place a seal of approval on a translation of the Quran. All true.

There is no universe in which Ms. Sultan's criticisms can be deemed the moral or intellectual equivalent of the sewage that spews from the lips of that serpentine whore who calls the 9/11 widows the "witches of New Brunswick"!

The following op-ed piece from Rabbi Stephen Julius Stein, about which the Muslim community is beaming, is heartwarming in its koombayah-peace-on-earth mantra, but the comparison between Sultan and Coulter and the underlying defensiveness about Judaism diminish its credibility:

Islam's Ann Coulter
The seductive and blinkered belligerence of Wafa Sultan.
By Stephen Julius Stein
STEPHEN JULIUS STEIN is a rabbi at Wilshire Boulevard Temple,
where he also directs inter-religious programming.June 25, 2006

RECENTLY I WAS one of about 100 L.A. Jews invited to attend a fundraiser for a Jewish organization that seeks to counteract anti-Israel disinformation and propaganda. The guest speaker was Wafa Sultan, the Syrian American woman who in February gave a now legendary interview on Al Jazeera television, during which she said that "the Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations" and "I don't believe you can reform Islam."The audience warmly greeted Sultan, a psychiatrist who immigrated to Southern California in 1989.

One of Time magazine's 100 "pioneers and heroes," she said she was neither a Christian, Muslim nor Jew but a secular human being. "I have 1.3 billion patients," she quipped early in her remarks, referring to the global Muslim population. Sultan went on to condemn inhumane acts committed in God's name, to denounce Islamic martyrdom and to decry terror as a tool to subjugate communities. Those statements all made perfect sense.

Then this provocative voice said something odd: "Only Arab Muslims can read the Koran properly because you have to speak Arabic to know what it means — you cannot translate it." Any translation is, by definition, interpretation, and Arabic is no more difficult to accurately translate than Hebrew. In fact, the Hebrew of the Bible poses many more formidable translation problems than Arabic. Are Christians and Jews who cannot read it ill-equipped to live by its meanings?

Another surprising remark soon followed: "All Muslim women — even American ones, though they won't admit it — are living in a state of domination." Do they include my friend Nagwa Eletreby, a Boeing engineer and expert on cockpit controls, who did not seek her husband's permission to help me dress the Torah scroll? Or how about my friend Azima Abdel-Aziz, a New York University graduate who traveled to Israel with 15 Jews and 14 other Muslims — and left her husband at home? There is no subjugation in the homes of these and other American Muslim women I know. They are equal, fully contributing members of their families. The
more Sultan talked, the more evident it became that progress in the Muslim world was not her interest.

Even more troubling, it was not what the Jewish audience wanted to hear about. Applause, even cheers, interrupted her calumnies. Judea Pearl, an attendee and father of murdered journalist Daniel Pearl, was one of the few voices of restraint and nuance heard that afternoon. In response to Sultan's assertion that the Koran contains only verses of evil and domination, Pearl said he understood the book also included "verses of peace" that proponents of Islam uphold as the religion's true intent. The Koran's verses on war and brutality, Pearl contended, were "cultural baggage," as are similar verses in the Torah. Unfortunately, his words were drowned out by the cheers for Sultan's full-court press against Islam and Muslims.

My disappointment in and disagreement with Sultan turned into dismay. She never alluded to any healthy, peaceful Islamic alternative. Why, for example, didn't this Southern California resident mention the groundbreaking efforts of the Islamic Center of Southern California, the leading exemplar of progressive Muslim American life in the United States? Why didn't she bring up the New Horizon School-Pasadena that the center started, the first Muslim American school honored by the U.S. Department of Education as a National Blue Ribbon School?

You might wonder why a rabbi is so uneasy about Sultan's assault on Muslims and Islam. Here's why: Contrary to practically every mosque in the U.S., the Islamic Center has a regulation in its charter barring funding from foreign countries. As a result, it is an American institution dedicated to propagating an American Muslim identity. Maher and Hassan Hathout are the philosophical and spiritual pillars of the mosque. They also have been partners of Wilshire Boulevard Temple rabbis and others throughout L.A. for decades. The Hathouts' mosque has twice endorsed pilgrimages to Israel and the Palestinian territories, its members traveling with fellow L.A.-area Jews and Christians. It invites Jews to pray with them, to make music with them, to celebrate Ramadan with them. This is the mosque whose day school teaches students about Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah alongside lessons in Arabic and the Koran. Recently, the Islamic Center joined the food pantry collective of Hope-Net, helping feed the hungry and homeless.

Make no mistake: I am not an Islamic apologist. But Sultan's over-the-top, indefensible remarks at the fundraiser, along with her failure to mention the important, continuing efforts of the Islamic Center, insulted all Muslims and Jews in L.A. and throughout the nation who are trying to bridge the cultural gap between the two groups. And that's one reason why I eventually walked out of the event.

Here's another: As I experienced the fervor sparked by Sultan's anti-Muslim tirade and stoked by a roomful of apparently unsuspecting Jews, I thought: What if down the street there was a roomful of Muslims listening to a self-loathing Jew, cheering
her on as she spoke of the evils inherent in the Torah, in which it is commanded that a child must be stoned to death if he insults his parents, in which Israelites are ordered by God to conquer cities and, in so doing, to kill all women and children — and this imagined Jew completely ignored all of what Judaism teaches afterward?

In a world far too often dominated by politicians imbued with religious fundamentalism of all flavors — Jewish, Christian, Muslim — we need the thoughtfulness, self-awareness and subtlety that comes from progressive religious expression. We have that in Judaism, in Christianity — and in Islam, right in our backyard. If only Sultan, applauded in many quarters yet miscast as a voice of reason and reform in Islam, were paying attention.

The questions Rabbi Stein raises reveal more about the weaknesses of both religions than about the validity of Ms. Sultan's statements. It is true that both books cannot be translated accurately; it is also true that both religions have a lot of violent, disgusting commands that are in no way displaced by a handful of commands not to covet your neighbors ass; and, if there was a "self-loathing Jew" pointing out the horrors of the Old Testament to a group of Muslims, her statements would be as valid as Ms. Sultan's. Because Judaism suffers from so many of the despicable defects that characterize Islam, the rabbi is at least intellectually honest enough to know that he must defend both if he is to redeem one. Thou dost protest much.


At 12:16 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Crankyboy said...

Religion can't be reformed? Ever hear of Reformation? Islam, of the world's three great religion stands alone in not adjusting or reforming to function in a modern world. And while yes the Torah and Bible have draconian passages of death for violating the sabbath or adultery, Islam is the only one that continues to actually impose those and worse (see the gang rape as payback in Pakistan case) punishments routinely around the world. Until Islam has it's internal war to drag itself into a modern world it will continue to be seen as a tool of extremists.

At 12:27 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

You can call that reform, but it is not. It is tossing the religion in the trash can or, more politely, picking and choosing what seems civilized at a given point in time based upon a certain cultural framework.

Cranky, the crux of your argument is that Islam is flawed because the rules set forth in the Quran are followed, but Christianity and Judaism are better because their followers choose to ignore the rules.

If Judaism says that a child who insults his parents must be killed, and you think that is the word and command of God, then you will follow the rule. To the extent that you do not follow the rule, you concede that perhaps not everything God says is worth following. And once you accept that your religion is more a suggestion than a command, what is left? What can be left?

Perhaps the problem with Islam is that it is the only religion that still has people who actually follow its rules rather than rewrite them to make them more palatable. In my view, the horrors of the imposition of Islamic law reveal the true barbarism that form the substance of all religion.

The absurdity of the debate is "My religion is better because no one follows its barbaric commands"..."No, my religion is better because everyone follows its barbaric commands."

At 1:01 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Crankyboy said...

Religion must function in a modern world. Otherwise, I can start a religion, Crankyism, and declare I must kill everyone who makes my cranky. Now how is that going to work in a modern, civilized society? That's the point. Religion is not some free check to rape, pillage and kill. The other religions have gone through the reformation process. The alternative is living in the dark ages and killing people who believe the sun revolves around the Earth? Without reformation there would have been no Renaissance. No Age of Enlightenment. Islam hasn't spent a day let alone the decades or hundreds of years reforming itself to function in a modern world. You want to behead and be-arm and be-leg people? You want to kill people who convert to Christianity? You want to ban bibles, churches or any other religion? You want to have honor killings? Then get people to sign a waiver agreeing to live like this. Otherwise a modern, enlightened world needs to try to prevent this form of psychotic mass murder and torture from being imposed on people unlucky enough to be born under the mullahs and sharia courts. Islam is doing a very good job preventing itself from being dragged into the modern world. What a pity.

At 1:32 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

I don't disagree with most of what you said. Islam is stagnant in a rotten cesspool swarming with flies and larvae. That is merely stating the obvious. That's not the point of this post or my comments.

You say religion must function in a modern world but I think it is more accurate to say that religion cannot function in a modern world. Islam is living proof of the incompatibility between "modern" life and religious edicts. Religious "reformers" implicitly agree with me but, for whatever reason, cannot let go of the religious label. Take Episcopalians who are willing to ordain gays as priests. Rewriting the religion to suit them. Reform Jews who cut the hair at the temples and have no concern about ham and cheese sandwiches. Rewriting, or in other words, abandoning the religion.

You can call it reform all you like, but the only decent religious people are the ones who do not respect the rules of their religion.

The same condition would result if the majority of Christians and Jews actually believed in the rules of their religions and applied them. Jesus said that when you divorce a woman you cause her to commit adultery. The OT says that people who commit adultery should be killed. Pretty straightforward and if we lived among real believers, we'd see a lot of dead divorced women (so much for pro-life).

The only thing that distinguishes Islam from Christianity and Judaism at this juncture in history is that the majority of the followers still live by the rules, as archaic as they are. If the majority of Jews lived by the literal teachings of the Torah, they would be mired in the same filth.

At 2:32 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Noisette said...

Not to be nit-picky, but the Renaissance predated the Reformation by about 100 years- and began in Italy, a country where the principles of the Reformation never really gained a foothold.
I'm just sayin'...

At 3:44 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

Jeez, I hate to step into this - my Uzi is in the shop and flak jacket at the cleaners, but I agree that no religion can exist in the modern world without turning the modern world into the ancient world. I can't think of one that hasn't declared open war on modernity even if it's under the guise of embracing it, as with Christian science.

But both arguments beg the question of what religion is. Is it ancient doctrines in all their cimmerian ambiguity, or is it what the current adherents say it is? Looking at the history, religion always changes and always claims it's seeking to adhere to the original. Whether you point out the nasty bits or stress the mild interpretation depends an a hundred things, including one's motives. Of course the idea that there is one Islam, one Judaism, one Christianity or one Buddhism is dismally ignorant if not arrogant, but in my opinion they're all bad in the hands of bad people and more nearly good in the hands of the otherwise good.

Perhaps it's true that you can't translate these ancient books. I believe bad translations of Hebrew are part of the backbone of Christianity and wars have been fought on the meaning of one word, but that's something I could write a book about - somewhere else - but it's obviously possible to justify anything you want to by using ancient texts even without ambiguous and tendentious translations.

If there's any point to all this, it's that I think you can only judge the merit of people and ideas and nations when you discard religions based on received and interpreted law and substitute compassion and other human values.

For are we not men? :-)>

Oh yes, and noisette is right and both reformed and unreformed Christianity continued to burn withches, persecute Jews and decry science and modernity.

At 4:58 PM, June 28, 2006 , Blogger Crankyboy said...

I typed them backwards. Without renaissance in 15th century you never would have had reformation in 16th century. My bad.

At 5:33 AM, June 29, 2006 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

Your bad what; Bad typing or bad English?

At 3:23 PM, June 29, 2006 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

I disagree the religion cannot exist in today's world. Buddhism can exhist in any world because all that matters is your own soul.

The so-called "clash of civilizations" is an economic conflict, not a religious one.

As soon as I see something written by "Rabbi such and such," I usually stop reading. 99% of the time, it's propaganda. This guy actually had some good points though. Amazing that over 100 people turned out for a meeting on how to hault criticism of Israel.

At 4:38 PM, June 29, 2006 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

II - as you likely know, I agree with your points.

Religion is simply a veil to give a set of beliefs the ultimate authority (i.e. - god says). Each era and people pick what they want to believe from whatever holy book they revere. This goes for Islam as well: There are "reformed" Muslims that preach peace.

Of course, they too are ignoring the eye-for-an-eye edicts of their teachings.

The whole system of religion is a crutch... it’s a crutch for those who cannot act morally of their own recognizance and need the concept of reward/punishment, good/evil, etc. etc. to give their life meaning.

A little self-reflection and reason will lead to a far more consistent and socially acceptable set of morals... so why bother with all the mysticism?

At 9:38 AM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...


You dismiss the concept of a creator so easily. I wonder about the depth of your life experiences.

At 9:47 AM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

BoB -

I don't know if it is semantics, but Buddhism is much more a philosophy than a religion. All the ritual nonsense that makes it a religion is completely beside the point of the Buddha's teachings. Don't you think?

RoR -

Would you admit that there are things out there about which we simply have no knowledge. I do not care for religion because, in my view, it is man-made silliness and a childish attempt to answer questions to which we will never have answers and perhaps we were never meant to answer. But, we did come from somewhere. Life on this earth started somehow. There is definitely more than what science can quantify. No?

At 9:59 AM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger Noisette said...

Well, BoB, I have had life experiences in SPADES, which have tended to reinforce my firm understanding- that we are flawed creatures, capable of great things but also scared, and that religion is something we have evolved to keep us calm and (except in extreme cases, obviously) keep us from killing each other. I don't believe in God. But I am a lovely person. I hope you can see your own dismissiveness in your comment. That you are completely convinced of the existence of a creator is very nice for you; that I am completely convinced otherwise is my prerogative- and I do take slight offense at the idea that those of us who find completeness in our lives without religion must be shallow or lacking in experience in some way. Rethink that- and don't write us off.

At 3:07 PM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

Thanks noisette... and to continue:

Well, I guess the question of “life experience” has some relevance…

Lets see… watching your mom’s sister die slowly of cancer in your home over the course of weeks…
Watching a good friend (at age 10) die of Leukemia…
Serving in a combat zone… worrying about being blown up each day…
Etc. etc.

On the lighter side:

Holding my newborn (couple days old) nephew.
Holding my newborn niece.
Traveling to China, Japan, Korea, Germany, Czech Repub, Spain, England, Hungary, Turkey, etc. etc. etc…

When younger, I did appeal to the concept of a higher being. Of course, nature took it’s course in all instances – regardless of my pleas or wishes.

Sorry: but religion is nothing more than man’s attempt to explain things he doesn’t understand and doesn’t have control over. If such un-founded beliefs give people comfort, they are fine… However, if they imbue you with some short of moral authority, they are completely anti-social.

Can science answer all our questions? I doubt it… I’d like to think the universe holds more mystery than we are capable (and designed) to comprehend.

Does “god” exist… I have no idea… But I do “know” that he’s not the god described by any of the ancients. If he is, they either did a shitty job of representing him; and I guess he didn’t care about how he was portrayed… or, we’re in trouble.

At 4:28 PM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

Noisette and RoR,

Thanks for your wonderful comments.

A few weeks ago, we had an exchange about religion and reason that left me thinking. I enjoyed that. Please don't lump me in with adherents to "traditional religion." I don't believe any one book has all the answers to life's problems, but I do believe in a certain Order to this universe that was created by something I can't explain. Buddhists call this Karma, and it's within all of us. I know better than to try to lecture others on what "God thinks" or is. And faith, by definition, means you have doubts.


I call Buddhism a spiritual philosophy. Calling it a philosophy alone isn't really sufficient, but I get your point.

At 4:36 PM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

Isn't the existence of Ann Coulter itself an argument against the existence of a benign god?

:-), StS

At 10:02 PM, June 30, 2006 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

StS... true.

I can see god letting satan run around causing trouble... but Coulter? Common... no one is that twisted.

BoB -- I hear you. If I had to identify with any spiritual "group", it would most likely be buddhism.

At 11:23 AM, July 02, 2006 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

The problem with Ancient Books is the fact that they are old.. :)

If we choose to believe that the Bible is a good religious history book with many words of wisdom and that it is meant to be a help for us, then because we have no eyewitnesses to tell us if the "translations" are accurate or even close, then we must take any inconsistencies as one of three things:

1. Accidentally Mis translated or...
2. Purposefully changed.
3. We just don't know enough about that position, because we haven't studied it enough.

The statement "If Judaism says that a child who insults his parents must be killed"

It has been shown that by going back into secular history a bible expert that I read once said that "The authority for a Jewish parent to be able to kill his child for disobedience" was never used. It was like a law that gives minimum and maximum penalties, 20 years "to life" and then never giving the maximum.

The Bible is "In my opinion" not perfect because it has been preserved by people with motives and has been translated by people who didn't understand or live the culture they were translating.

Just as the term "That's cool" when translated 100 years from now, may mean, "it's cool to the touch" instead of it being "neat" which would again have a different meaning than the colloquial.

To those who have never really studied the bible they think it was written for people to be able to pick and choose, when in reality they haven't got a clue.

The Bible is meant to be enlightening for those who can handle the truth and confusing to those to whom the truth would actually harm by making them more accountable before they are ready.

All religions have a certain amount of truth, some more than others, and perhaps one with the most.

God allows people to be born into families who have embraced the right amount of truth so as to allow proper growth and not to saddle them with too much all at once.

Some would not understand this and actually think it is a sign that people are just sheep and will blindly follow what their parents teach for the rest of their lives.

No, many increase their knowledge of truth and move to a more enlightened religion, one that may be the most enlightened, or only one that has more truth.

A person that has not studied the bible and has never "tried" to understand the "hidden" truths, would think they are just better than those "sheep" and they think they have it all figured out. That is just hubris at work.



At 12:09 PM, July 03, 2006 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...


I wonder that anyone can call Buddhism a religion in the sense that Christianity or Judaism or Islam is a religion. The idea that a soul has identity or uniqueness isn't part of Buddhism, the goal of which is the annihilation (nirvana) of anything that can be called a unique soul or "your soul." That's called anatta in Sanskrit meaning "no soul" and it's as fundamental as annecha or dhuka to the basic understanding of Buddhism.

Buddha had no time for creators or first causes - that again is fundamental to his teachings. He supposedly talked about the saddness of his teachings eventually being turned into a religion and I guess that as in so many things, he was right.

What do we mean by the modern world? To me it's a world in which information is gained from observation and in which understanding is tempered by experiment. This is antithetical to received or gnostic wisdom or wisdom ritually believed for the sake of some result. God cannot be, despite anyone's claim of gnosis, derived from evidence or verified by repeatable experiment. Things that point to one god must point to an infinite number of gods and any attribute of any god can be dismissed because none can be verified. By definition, no world that accepts undetectable entities such as spirits, sprites, pixies, gods, demons or souls can be called a modern world.

It is only because Buddha is not a god and his teachings not a religion that it is compatable with physics, cosmology and the modern world.

Buddham saranam gacchami.

At 12:19 PM, July 03, 2006 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...


Biblical errency can also be attributed to politics. A study of its writers in context of the political exegecies of the time reveals much. Then too, you aren't aware of some of the most important characteristics unless you can see the puns and jokes that aren't translated or the fact that there are two contradictory narratives written in different dialects giving different facts and different names for God.

One must also be aware that the Bible did not exist as a book until some 1600 years ago and was assembled in times of extreme turmoil by people who needed to elevate certain texts above others for purely political reasons. Some of the oldest gospels were left out by Constantine's boys because they pissed off the Romans. There are over a dozen equally legitimate books of Isaiah, for instance. Why was one chosen over the others in the first century?

Really, people who spend their lives in "Bible Study" never seem to have the most basic grasp of it yet spend their lives trashing students of history and contemporary teachings.

It's sad.

At 4:58 PM, July 03, 2006 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

Capt Fogg,

Said: "that there are two contradictory narratives written in different dialects giving different facts and different names for God."

There are lots of things like the above that can be explained if you have an open mind and are willing to study.

Said: "One must also be aware that the Bible did not exist as a book until some 1600 years ago and was assembled in times of extreme turmoil by people who needed to elevate certain texts above others for purely political reasons."

I don't disagree with that at all.

Constitine wanted to unite the Christians around 300AD and commissioned the bible be assembled. Some beleive those commissioned were inspired to choose some books over others.

The word "Bible" literally means "Library of Books" or "the books."

The first 5 books of the Bible were written by Moses. I am amazed that so many can tell a story and get it so close, as you know what usually happens when many people try to tell what they observed, it is usually very different.

I for one would be less assured if it appeared that only one person wrote all of the books of the bible.

Said: "Really, people who spend their lives in "Bible Study" never seem to have the most basic grasp of it yet spend their lives trashing students of history and contemporary teachings."

I don't know any that have spent their lives in "Bible Study" and not have a basic grasp of it. In fact I find just the opposite, that those who have not spent much time at all, find "talking points" from others to make it look like they actually have a clue.



At 11:07 AM, July 05, 2006 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

If you're insinuationg that I have spent little time in studying bibles, you're very wrong. What many call an open mind is the wilful suspension of logic if not also honesty.

I stick by my story. Those who have studied it at the university level don't study the same thing as the sunday school crowd who simply absorb nice little falacies and fabrications, mistranslations and the like. Moses' authorship would be amazing if the Exodus describes the political layout of the 7th century BC - which it does.

No matter how open your mind, it's helpful to know that Jericho had no walls during the period that supposedly contained the exodus and was an Egyptian provence.

It's helpful to know how the gospel writers misquoted and misattributed quotes from the ancient sources and that they read them only in greek, not hebrew. It's helpful to know about the historical contradictions in them - but you won't get that from sources in the business of merchandising faith, now will you?

Don't want to load you up with "talking points," whatever that means, but you've illustrated my written points quite accurately. History, archaeology, logic and science do not support any claims of the faithful and here you are trashing me for it.

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