Thursday, August 30, 2007

Uncle Cheney Wants You


At 10:49 AM, August 30, 2007 , Blogger mrsleep said...

I have my tar and feathers waiting.

At 12:09 PM, August 30, 2007 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

Wouldn't that be a great holiday sight?

At 2:50 PM, August 30, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

While it is easy to ridicule individual politicians, they are actually not at fault.

It is the dynamic of the system.

They are rewarded for bad behavior. Bad behavior is behavior that is interested in dollar business, but little else.

Apparently it has not dawned on people that we have a system that comes from the 18th. century, and uses Adam Smith economic principles to try to enforce a system that no longer works, and will not work in the future.
Another Cheney awaits us with the current model.
Unless system change happens, special interest groups are, and will control us.
You may as well tar and feather yourselves for all the good that would do you.

Until people get at the root of what is going on, it is more pouring from the empty into the void.

At 4:54 PM, August 30, 2007 , Blogger mrsleep said...

Tarring and feathering would get someone's attention.

Would make a great Saturday night live skit. At least I can get a laugh out of it.

At 8:18 AM, September 01, 2007 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

The argument from newness is a very weak argument, more appropriate to selling soap than economic and political systems. The argument that the weaknesses of humans stem from a system and will disappear if the system is changed or eliminated is in itself an enlightenment era idea and has not really stood the test of experience.

No theory can be considered sound unless it has been tested against the genius of the species; the ability to subvert, twist, ignore, force, get around, over, under and through in the service of personal gain.

The 19th and 20th centuries produced many grand plans and schemes that seem impervious to corruption but have failed miserably. Perhaps you have the perfect one.

At 9:45 AM, September 01, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

Bush`s/Cheney`s first duty to the special interest groups that control them is to expand the economy.
War is the short cut, and fall back position to do that, and has been since the late 1940`s.

Going after Bush/Cheney will not affect the big picture.

Bush/Cheney are only a puppets.

Getting at the real dynamic of our system and exposing it for what it is, may be the first step in changing things.

The stock market will soar again in an Iran attack, just as it did after the Iraq attack.

Private, for profit company`s will feed at the debt token (money) trough again, and the system will once again expand.

If it does not expand, it spells doom for the system.
We are in a circle of doom.

At 11:53 AM, September 04, 2007 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At 11:53 AM, September 04, 2007 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

So many systems sound good on paper: at least capitalism and representative democracy attempt to utilize greed and humanities self-centeredness within the framework of a system that seems to function better than any tested to date.

And, as you point out, that's the problem: testing.

A system of "technocracy" as exposed would seem to be little more than a oligarchy. To pretend that scientists and technical folk would be less inclined to "game the system" for personal gain - no matter what system that is - seems naive in the extreme. ... and tyrannical.

As for the economic aspects... There are some interesting ideas there -- from the little I've read. But the problem with any system is getting it implemented and "bought into" ... Try to convince those who benefit from capitalism to switch and see what happens.

My point -- proposing an alternate form of government and economics is only one small part of the problem. As in most complex system, the transition plan is likely - by far - the most complicated part.

At 12:40 PM, September 04, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

As you said R.O.R. for someone that does not really understand the subject, it is pitifully and ignorantly arrogant of you to 'preach' to people that have looked and understood it, of being naive.

In other words how is it that you reject something out of hand that you have not even taken the time to explore, or understand ?

Typical brainwashed American. Ha ha.

Special Interest groups are precluded from Technocracy design.

Any and all special interest groups, have but one commonality. That is to deprive others of something, and there must be gain for the special interest group members. Otherwise there would be no function of or for a special interest group.

The design of the Technate precludes ANY special interest groups from having any power or control over the Production, Distribution or Consumption of all goods and services available under the operating System of the Technate, further this design precludes any special interest groups from having power or control over other humans.

Churches/Religious groups, are Special interest groups. PERIOD, as are all Political groups.

One may hold any belief system they wish (in a Technate) however they have no special consideration regardless of how many may choose to believe what ever it is they believe.

All insanity is supported by one holding a belief system. No belief system is ever or will ever be supported by fact.


Energy accounting in the design of the Technate has the function of just that.
The results of that is knowing how much energy is being input (for any reason or product) and the rate of, as well as origin of, consumption of that product.
This serves to assure replacement at that geo location of that product as a matter of design function.

Energy certificates are not debt tokens. They have no debt function. Energy certificates are NOT Energy Credits. Both Credit and Debt are Price System functions, and neither exist in the Design of the Technate of and for North America.

Re : the Technocracy Study Course : The Design of the Technate for North America has not changed functionally.
Increased technological efficiency simply makes the design much more efficient in its operation. The changing of data such as the Energy produced by a human, or the speed of light, (186,300 miles per second to 186,280 miles per second, for example does not in any way negate or even effect the Design of the Technate for North America.

Any design other than that which follows the Design of the Technate as presented in the TSC is a Price System, and it can only function as a price system, which is what the world now uses.

The chorus needs not be preached to, the rest would do well to read and understand. The Technate as designed will likely never be demanded and installed by the Politicians. If it is installed, it will be because there is simply no other alternative other then chaos.

At 2:38 PM, September 05, 2007 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

In other words, by revolution. No one is going to choose it and there never have been more than a handful of supporters in all these years, nor have the depression era predictions of doom come true.

In fact capitalist nations are vastly wealthier and more poverty free than when this idea was first put forth. It's not looking good for the historical inevitability of any of those systems that were supposed to be our manifest destiny.

If you think a massive worldwide redistribution of wealth will spontaneously arise from the ashes of failed capitalism, I have a war to sell you and if you believe any system is beyond corruption - well, It would be the first in human history, wouldn't it?

But it's good to see that you're not a flip flopper and continue viciously to defame anyone who doesn't "understand" that the book is infallible and of course we know it's infallible because the book says so.

It's no different from any belief system. If you don't believe it's because you haven't studied the book or because you're a heretic to be ridiculed. And Jesus will be back any day now - doom - doom - doom.

I think actually that most anyone would be happy to discuss Technocracy if you were a reasonable person interested in reasonable discussion but you're not and all your discussions on all the blogs you inhabit consist of you you ascribing all the ills of history to "the price system" and calling people idiots without further explanation. Even most of your fellow believers it seems reject you and your polemics.

All anyone really wants to know is how this system is foolproof and how it cannot be made to serve the interests of a few at the expense of everyone else. After all, we were assured that Marx had it all figured out too - all you had to do if you were in doubt was read the book.

At 6:34 PM, September 05, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

Again Fog, you are not worth debating with on this subject.
You are simplistic, and do not understand the issues involved.

You are not really interested in the subject, but interested in empty headed comment by your self.

I have noted that you are an egoistic blatherer in the past. You have not changed.

"If you think a massive worldwide redistribution of wealth will spontaneously arise from the ashes of failed capitalism, I have a war to sell you and if you believe any system is beyond corruption - well, It would be the first in human history, wouldn't it?"

This is inane bullshit Fogg, not related to any thing I have said.

"It's no different from any belief system. If you don't believe it's because you haven't studied the book or because you're a heretic to be ridiculed. And Jesus will be back any day now - doom - doom - doom."

Again I now view you as a stupid person, and not an ignorant person.
I give people the benefit of the doubt for a while.

Technocracy is science applied to society, and there is no 'belief' involved. The last time I checked the laws of physics were not something that one would have to 'believe' in.

Technocracy is the greatest conceptual idea of the 20th century in regard to providing functional governance for North America. You understand nothing about it. Nor do you care to. You like to feed around the fringes and edges of political brainwash convention. The 21st century has some very bad consequences in store for it. Resource destruction, stupid growth, wars, hunger, in other words, more of the same. Sustainability is not an issue for our Price System. Making money is. Controlling people is.
Wake up.

--- As far as your bullshit attacks on me personally, go ahead. I don`t care. People reveal themselves by their actions, and it is very apparent to me that you are not interested in the subject of Technocracy, and are only interested in 'getting over' with being considered 'smart'. Ha ha.

I did not enter into the subject of Technocracy in this post. R.O.R. did and I commented back.

Your voice tells me you are only a bullshit artist, and not a particularly good one. As with many of your ilk you are brainwashed. That is not excuse though. You are an adult.

I do not do research for people. If you are interested in our program, get off your dead ass and check out the information yourself. It is not the subject of this post any way.

As a social activist I do not care about alienated people that need hand holding, or are not sufficiently intellectually aware to think for themselves.
That includes you Fogg.

At 9:19 AM, September 06, 2007 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

You never illustrate or explain or answer questions and you never change the subject. It's as though you only support these economic ideas to have something to feel superior about, but the idea of you condescending to me is about as amusing as it could get and just as you tried to convince my daughter and son in law in another blog that I am an idiot troll nobody, you are making a fool of yourself here. They're still laughing.

I was trying to cut you some slack to see if you really had any ideas worth talking about or that you could actually express without referring everyone to the mysteries of the book, but it's no wonder you were thrown out of Technocracy Inc. You are the worst spokesman for the doctrine anyone could find.

But your presumption and your self-importance are far too amusing - really. Keep posting these descriptions of me. I'd like to frame some of them.

At 12:50 PM, September 06, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

I was not thrown out of any thing Mr. Frog.
You Stupid ~!~!

At 6:13 AM, September 07, 2007 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

Well you don't have to be a psychiatrist to recognize a psycho, but it is actually quite interesting to see how after I mentioned your being listed in Wikipedia as an infamous troll and an ejectee from Technocracy the paragraph was removed. You either have a friend or an anonymous screen name.

You can call me anything you like, slick, you just illustrate my point.

At 7:39 AM, September 07, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

I have checked Wikipedia, and you are listed Fogg as a famous troll, and a psycho.
Also you are wanted by the police for kicking an old lady in the shins.

Fogg - Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Any idiot can find any thing on the internet. Wikipedia is nothing more than a blog with some loose rules. It is considered a joke by any one with a brain.
Drop dead. You are even dumber than I thought.

At 2:00 PM, September 07, 2007 , Blogger Capt. Fogg said...

Jesus Christ - what are you, 8 years old?

At 2:13 PM, September 07, 2007 , Blogger Sean said...

Skip, for someone who considers Wikipedia as a "joke by any one with a brain.", you spend an awful lot of time commenting at the site. I'm just saying.


At 6:43 PM, September 07, 2007 , Blogger skip sievert said...

Here is an old post from somewhere else Sean that I did about Wikipedia. I don`t know if you will find it interesting, but it is how I feel about that site.

"Any person with half a brain should realize that Wikipedia is a joke mostly, and usually a bad joke.

I say that as a user there, and an editor.

It is run by people that mostly do not know what they are doing, it is run by consensus among the posters.
As an editor there, I have had the direct experience of seeing just how bad it is.
As a quickie reference point it comes in handy, but pushing the wiki button for a supposed understanding of something in depth or in an unbiased way is a big error for any one wishing 'good' information.
A little trick I suggest.
If you are looking up something, always go to the discussion page behind the article and also read that.
That is the debate among the editors behind the scenes of the article, and often you will find out just as much or more there.
Press the tab, usually in the upper left of the top of the article to get to the discussion page.
Very often a clique of dissemblers will get together to control and article.
Many times an over seer admin. editor is either not smart enough or does not have the time or interest to understand what is going on if assigned that article, or is a volunteer over seer.
Hence it is child's play, for a cabal to capture/control of an article, and then they can spread what ever disinformation they care to with relative impunity.
So... Wikipedia is ultimately bullshit, although it can have good information also.
It is the perfect place for the pseudo autodidact to convince their self that they are a genius.

August 25, 2007 8:39 AM
M.D. said...

Thanks, Skip. That's useful info and I will follow your advice.

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