Friday, September 30, 2005

What Do You Find Attractive?

A conversation with a friend of mine reminded me of my favorite passage from Atlas Shrugged so I thought I would share it.
________________________

Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the woman he sleeps with and I will tell you his valuation of himself. No matter what corruption he's taught about the virtue of selflessness, sex is the most profoundly selfish of all acts, an act which he cannot perform for any motive but his own enjoyment -- just try to think of performing it in a spirit of selfless charity! -- an act which is not possible in self-abasement, only in self-exaltation, only in the confidence of being desired and being worthy of desire. He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects the deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience -- or fake -- a sense of self-esteem. The man who is proudly certain of his own value, will want the highest type of woman he can find, the woman he admires, the strongest, the hardest to conquer -- because only the possession of a heroine will give him the sense of achievement, not the possession of a brainless slut.

He does not seek to gain his value, he seeks to express it. There is no conflict between the standards of his mind and the desires of his body. But the man who is convinced of his own worthlessness will be drawn to a woman he despises -- because she will reflect his own secret self, she will release him from that objective reality in which he is a fraud, she will give him a momentary illusion of his own value and a momentary escape from the moral code that damns him. Observe the ugly mess which most men make of their sex lives -- and observe the mess of contradictions which they hold as their moral philosophy. One proceeds from the other. Love is our response to our highest values -- and can be nothing else. Let a man corrupt his values and his view of existence, let him profess that love is not self-enjoyment but self-denial, that virtue consists, not of pride, but of pity or pain or weakness or sacrifice, that the noblest love is born, not of admiration, but of charity, not in response to values, but in response to flaws -- and he will have cut himself in two.

His body will not obey him, it will not respond, it will make him impotent toward the woman he professes to love and draw him to the lowest type of whore he can find. His body will always follow the ultimate logic of his deepest convictions; if he believes that flaws are values, he has damned existence as evil and only the evil will attract him. He has damned himself and he will feel that depravity is all he is worthy of enjoying. He has equated virtue with pain and he will feel that vice is the only realm of pleasure. Then he will scream that his body has vicious desires of its own which his mind cannot conquer, that sex is sin, that true love is a pure emotion of the spirit. And then he will wonder why love brings him nothing but boredom, and sex -- nothing but shame.

56 Comments:

At 12:06 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

I need to read that book! I've never heard of it before.

I've always been attracted to the wholesome-looking, maternal type, even when I was a kid. I like "soft" women; women who have a certain sense of innocence and class. Some values. Physically, she still has to be red-hot. I like nice legs and pretty faces. Nice lips too! My fav stars are Cece Winans, Nia Long, Vivica (before the surgery), Angelina Jolie (go figure). I really like the mom on "Roc" too. :-)

I'm definitely NOT attracted to super-aggressive, corporate, slutty, ho-dressin', loud or bossy women. Or women that have been with a whole bunch of men.

What does that say about me? :-)

 
At 12:20 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

BOB -

You've never heard of Atlas Shrugged? Where have you been hiding? Absolutely, one of the greatest books ever written. It's a bit dry up front, but it's a fantastic piece of philosophy put in novel form.

Ayn Rand once said that if all philosophers had to write a novel that illustrated their philosophies, most would be proven to be the frauds that they are.

You tell me what your tastes in women says about you. :-)

 
At 12:42 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

LOL! I'm gonna get that book on Amazon.

I would say that I am attracted to women that are the opposite of my mother, to be blunt and honest. I didn't/don't have a great relationship with her, so I am attracted to women that represent a certain stability and pureness that I did not receiver from her. Not to speak badly on her, because things were out of her control, but my mother was/is very aggressive and uses(d) words to harm others, so I don't like women that do that. That's why I don't like aggressive women.

Still, I have my arrogant, cocky side that likes nothing less than an 8. :-)

 
At 12:54 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

You haven't spoken about values yet. That's the point of the passage. An 8 or not, there have to be core values that are prerequisites. Come on now, I know you have more depth than that.

 
At 1:41 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

09 30 05

Gee Intellectual:
What a thought provoking post. I see what it means too. I have met a few guys who claim that they "don't like china dolls or overtly pretty women" and that "looks don't matter". What a bunch of BS indeed evolutionary biology (if you subscribe to it) justifies being ATTRACTIVE as something to propagate our species. Now I am a woman and am married. Before I was married, I liked: redheads, guys who were maybe a couple of inches taller than me, not bulky but somewhat stocky and athletic and not too hairy. They had to value science and love physics and be able to challenge my opinions (I LOVE THAT!!!) and have some type of faith in a higher power. OK, I wanted a clone of myself. Before I went off to Spelman, I was with a similar redhead. When I got to Spelman we eventually broke up, but I ended up with another redhead (this time a Black redhead). It turns out we were just too much alike!!! LOL!!! In the end, my husband is not too tall, he isn't a redhead but a curly headed little brownie though, and his ideology is quite similar to my own, except he is different enough to me that there is that challenge tension.... I love it!

 
At 1:41 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

Values are a given. Family first. A woman has to put her children and her family FIRST. Not her career. The same goes for me, but the responsibilities are different.

Values is kinda vague too. I would want someone who treats people kindly, cares about people less fortunate, sensitive, smart, insightful, inquisitive, happy, faithful, believes in God.

Does that cut it?

 
At 1:44 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

Mahndisa!

I went to Morehouse.

Bombs aka Justin

 
At 2:23 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

BOB - that cuts it. :=)
Mahndisa - I completely understand. Before I got married, I liked and dated tall bald-headed brothas. I ended up with a tall, half-Indian, half German with a "boy next door" look. Putting aside the physical preferences though, every one of them was brilliant and ambitious.
How did you find so many redheads? :-)

 
At 7:45 PM, September 30, 2005 , Blogger Roseville Conservative said...

Good Post II...

As someone who is single and never married at this point... I have given that some thought.

I am looking for a best friend who is also a practicing Christian. She will probably either need to be a Conservative like me or apolitical due to my involvement in the GOP.

The values thing is covered by the statement that I need a practicing Protestant Christian for a wife.

 
At 3:50 PM, October 06, 2005 , Blogger Mr. Wilson said...

i think ayn rand was completely off in her estimation of what men find sexually attractive...

sexual desire which awakens in puberty is the re-experiencing of the same overwhelming needs we had as children. we spend our adult lives thinking we are sexually attracted to this or that, but or sexual attraction is really wrapped up in the repressed and unconcious desires that go back to our childhood.

anyway, ayn rand just looked at this in too simple of a fashion. first of all what a man is sexually excited by, and what he gives himself the moral green light to act on are often very far apart. men might be sexually excited by one time of woman, but drawn to another type of women based on other emotional needs that are not purely erotic. or perhaps they are driven to want a certain kind of woman for purely ego driven reasons. (how many people do you know who want luxury cars but know nothing about what makes that luxury car superior...other than the high price?...is it not the same in sexual relations that some just lookt to compete for the most desirable people in the sexual marketplace...don't men try to date models not because they are particularly attractive, but because they confer some kind of status on the man who dates them?) and what about the man who is attracted to men and women? what about the fact that sexual attraction is not even the greateste priority in all male/female reactions.

like i said, i think ayn was completely running from her own emotional needs and concerns when it came to men and male/female relationships and completely rationalized a philosophy that intellectualized her anger and rage and also gave her "moral grounds" to act carelessly.

 
At 11:25 AM, October 12, 2005 , Blogger PB said...

Mr.Wilson--well stated.

Ayn wrote..."Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life."

Wonder what she would say if I said I am a legs kinda guy? Can anbody help me here?

 
At 4:02 PM, October 14, 2005 , Blogger mrsleep said...

Hmmm. Been married 27 years, and been together 31 years.

Values. Family first. Small but very close group of friends. Strong sense of right and wrong, consistently applied. Willing to fight for what you believe. Strong sense of community. Wants to make a difference in the world.

FYI. 1st date April 10 when we were 17. Proposed in the middle of our first fight 8 weeks later, married 4 years after that. Been together ever since.

 
At 4:16 PM, October 14, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

Mr. Sleep,

That is such a cool story! You sure know how to defuse an argument - propose. :-)

 
At 7:44 AM, October 16, 2005 , Blogger mrsleep said...

ii, subsequent arguments have not been diffused so artfully

 
At 3:03 AM, October 19, 2005 , Blogger Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

10 19 05

Hey Intellectual:
I have been looking for this post because I wanted to reference it. I found so many red heads because I lived in Modesto, where they exist:) When I went to Spelman I found a guy who went to Morehouse who was a redhead. I had a little fetish I must admit.... But I am certainly over that now:) I think I have a fetish for my husband! ha ha ha have a good day :)

 
At 8:34 PM, January 06, 2006 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

good post

 
At 11:14 AM, January 28, 2007 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Men and women are not different in this most basic manner. What, or who they seek to conquer with love, or the desire to love, is who, or what, they prefer to associate and be the "best they can be."

What would love be otherwise than the pursuit of pleasure - which can be found on any street corner, in any town in the world?

Body value is related to soul value in that they cannot be separated for very long, and certainly not for the intimacy of marriage.

The expression of love is of the whole self, and the object of love, the mirror of our self esteem to anchor our deepest and cherished values.

 
At 11:22 PM, February 11, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

BOB, you would not enjoy Atlas Shrugged at all in my opinion if that is your opinion of the ideal woman, as Dagny, the main character is the oposite of this entirely. As for mos of the rest of the people who posted:
Mr Wilson, have you even read Atlas Shrugged yourself? If you had, you would understand that this quote comes from a passage in which one character is, basically, telling another that it is not a crime to value youself and that love does not have to be given away like alms to the needy, and that it is perfectly alright to love someone, not simply because you feel they need your love but for the soul reason that they make you happy. Thus his reason to love being selfish. This short bit about sex comes also in the middle of a monologue about money and the virtue of selfishness, and how if you are driven, ambitious, and successful because of your hard work, this is not a crime. Also, "don't men try to date models not because they are particularly attractive, but because they confer some kind of status on the man who dates them?" This falls under the men sleeping with brainless sluts because it gives them a small sense of accomplishment and false self-esteem, which is exactly what one is going for if the only reason they date a model is for the status. Thats "conquest" is seen as difficult and thus an achievment. I feel that you are missing the point by dragging up Freudian sex theories. An Rand uses the character of Franscico D'Anconia as one of the few in her novel that profess her personal ideologies. Franscico is an incredibly brilliant prodigy of a man, who has only ever really loved Dagny, and has not really been attracted to other women because most of them are below him. Not in a sexist way, but in a society is collapsing their are few worthy intellectuals left kind of way. Also in this passage love and sex are coupled together so that you assume those few who truely love are those that see a reflection of their highest values in the other, while the rest do not truely love those they sleep with, much like you said in your commen, that many men might be only sexually attracted to some slutty women, but this is merely a reflection of himself. And also, "what about the man who is attracted to men and women"? This misses the point of the passage entirely. The concept of love applies to everyone: both men and women, and men and women who like both or their own sex.

 
At 6:40 PM, January 24, 2011 , Anonymous Christian Alexander Tietgen said...

Okay, so I'm a socialist and I like weak girls, that makes sense, right.

 
At 11:18 AM, August 31, 2011 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Men choose a women that is a reflection of themselves. men who want "soft" women are soft themselves. Men who want a woman to put family first will probably do the same and have kids by the time they are 20 and will probably be poor looters. Men who want weak women are not social climbers, sorry.

 
At 1:03 PM, November 11, 2011 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

how true. i loved a girl who is super smart and beautiful. i still love her. she did not like me. i was so mad at myself that i went to a whorehouse. i am so disgusted with myself right now.

 
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