Monday, October 31, 2005

Lamenting Over A Lost Past


Republicans these days are bellyaching that America has strayed from her Christian values --values, they argue, that made America the strong, unique, morally irreproachable nation it is. There is no denying that America is an incredible model of republican (with a little "r") values, but I cannot fathom how anyone even implies that this country was once a utopian Christian country that somehow lost its way.

You cannot tell me that committing genocide by putting small pox in the blankets of non-Christians is a Christian thing to do. If that is your assertion, you belong in a mental institution (or you can go work for Pat Robertson, which probably is the same thing). Putting aside the Old Testament and its many troubling edicts, I would be shocked if the New Testament says that it is okay to enslave people for any reason, let alone based upon race. Not only did these so-called Christians enslave people, force them to labor, rape their women and destroy their families, they fought a war to preserve their "right" to do so. There are many Republicans of the Red States who still proudly display the confederate flag in their nostalgia over the "Christian" America that was destroyed by the damned "liberal" Yankee agitators. There is no Christian repentance among the people who voted for David Duke.

In this long-lost Christian America, Whites enacted Jim Crowe laws to ensure that the Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness would be denied to thousands of their fellow citizens even after the end of slavery. Whites were legally prohibited from marrying Blacks. There was strict segregation in education, restaurants and, as Rosa Parks' death reminds us, public transportation. This was a land where White men asserted their manhood by bullying Black women out of their seats on buses. Apparently, chivalry did not exist in long lost Christian America.

Even after the judicial activists of the United States Supreme Court overruled Plessy v. Ferguson and ruled that separate-but-equal was unconstitutional, it required the National Guard to protect young Black students from the governor of Alabama and his mob. The Christian KKK murdered NAACP leaders and students alike in their quest to intimidate Blacks from participating in the system. Republicans complain that Muslims don't speak out against terrorists in their community, but they remain and remained silent when the terrorists in their own neighborhoods preach hate against Americans.

America did not have a shred of morality until at least the 1960's. It was not until John F. Kennedy demanded that people look to the moon for inspiration, broke the Christian monopoly on the presidency and united Americans as one people did America begin to morally evolve as a nation. Everything that makes America resemble the democracy is claims to be is a product of the 60's and 70's and since. And those are the things against which the Republicans now fight in hopes of returning to "Christian" America.

The picture above is from Mississippi 1937, although it could be from many places in America in any time period through the 1960's. Is this the Christian America for which you long?

34 Comments:

At 8:02 AM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger mrsleep said...

II, excellent post is all I have to say. The "silence" of the Right wing Christians to injustices, intolerance, etc, is unconscionable, how ever I have never seen them acknowledge this.

 
At 8:15 AM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

II,

Your blog is right on the mark. I regularly debate this topic with folks at work.

Many American's have the misconception that America was founded on ‘Christian values’. As you know the vast majority of Founders were Diests – they professed a belief in a power higher but didn’t buy into Christian mysticism. More importantly, they all were true members of the Enlightenment: men (and women) who put reason above superstition.

I believe religion is one of the big problems this country faces today. Faith, in and of itself, is not the problem. The problem occurs when faith is used as the basis – or in support of – public policy. This is backdrop of your blog: religious ‘faith’ used to justify behavior…

As for the Bible – aside from the words of Christ – I find it a wholly evil book. Any purported ‘revelation of god’ that includes specific instructions on how to sell your daughter into sexual slavery, how and when to beat your slaves and orders to armies to slay every man, woman and child (and ox!) in a city simply cannot and should not be taken seriously. The fact that such a large percentage of our populace professes a belief in the bible (the vast majority of who haven’t even read it all the way through) truly scares me.

 
At 10:19 AM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

11 01 05

Hey II:
What a heavy post! I agree that the revisionism of some people is astounding and hard to stomach. I will make another comment when I return from my break, or maybe email you; I simply don't wanna take up too much comment space! This post hit a nerve!

 
At 10:47 AM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger bombsoverbaghdad said...

II,

Amazing post. Too many people confuse Christianity with culture. They are obviously very differnt things. Christianity REQUIRES its adherents to NEVER engage in violence, even if it means your own death. It requires a restraint and a love that almost nobody can adhere to. I agree with Rick, the actual words of Christ are an amazing gift. Everyrthing else, especially the OT, is so violent and confusing.

American culture, on the other hand, is rife with violence, which, to most people can be justified through misinterpretations (or flat out ignoring) of the Bible.

The problem in America is that people have somehow signed onto the notion that America is the world's "messianic force to be" as Martin Luther King said, no matter what America does. There is no end to what they will do.

 
At 11:39 AM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger Crankyboy said...

That's what they want and are working relentlessly to get. They will never stop. They will go after school boards and every level of government to create the United States of Christians

 
At 2:13 PM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger Stalin the Shark said...

How did Kennedy break the "christian" monopoly on the presidency? He was a catholic, no?

:-), StS

 
At 2:25 PM, November 01, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

STS - he was the first Catholic president. I completely agree that the broad term "Christians" includes Catholics, but there are many Christians, like RC for example, who do not think so. Not sure if he was the first, but he is also one of the only presidents to come from the north.

 
At 10:24 AM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger Adrianne said...

love this post!!!!

 
At 10:35 AM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger Adrianne said...

I think it's fascinating that we celebrate Rosa Park's and how far we have evolved. Yes we have evolved as far as racial segregation, but what about political/religious segregation? Perhaps the issue is not so much about African Americans, has our enemy shifted? It is not Arab-Americans? Or Indian-Americans, simply because they are "Eastern Looking".


We so so divided yet again. Even this faux fear of "terrorism" cannot bring us together, as the President has tried to manipulate. There is segregation now except it's religious/political. Also I would like to mention that on a republican blog, republicans were chatting about how if they see a car on the road with a democratic bumper sticker, they will refuse to let them in the right lane or change lanes...have we come that far people? Yes very mature and Christ like.

Sorry for ranting!

 
At 12:39 PM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger Mr. Wilson said...

What are you talking about II? If it hadn't been for the good Christian folks of days past...us black people would still be savages eating each other in the gungles while playing them dang tom tom drums all night. The good Christian folks taught us how to do an honest days work and gave us the motivation to build the economy of the strongest nation ever. Ever since that JFK we have gotten downright uppity thinking we can take the white man's money and women and not pay...

Okay...all jokes aside. I don't think serious Republicans understand that the days of slavery, and later segregation were a part of THEIR history. (Many are quick to remind you that the great emancipator Abraham Lincoln was a Republican even though he only freed the slaves in the Confederate states hoping they would rise up and revolt...which is ironically a very Republican notion: encourage poor disenfranchised people to fight the wars of the wealthy who stand to reap the benefit of the spoils). I think they honestly think that they are different than the reactionaries of the past, and that all of a sudden we have gone too far in terms of progressiveness. They will never learn from history that everything they are saying now as members of conservative leadership is no different than those who supported the status quo in 1960 and those who supported the status quo in 1860. They will forever try to claim they were born at the crest of true enlightenment and that we have finally achieved equalibrium and fairness and dignity for all. In reality few have the balls to admit the truth: "Some of us were lucky to born with certain privelege that we are accustomed to and no matter how selfish it makes me for wanting to maintain that privelege status, I will seek to maintain it because I am in a position to do so." What amazes me is the number of poor and working class Christian white people who fall for the rhetoric and don't see they are marginalizing their own econcomic interests because someone is winking back at them that they will still help to maintain white privelege (of course dressed up in some "moral Christian values" language).

Well we are all capable of being deluded especially when there is significant pyschic pressure to push us into lying to ourselves. But even given that I am not surprised by any actions of any group of people who believe they are a part of the one true and right religion (just because they were born into a culture that thrust it on them) at the perfect point in history where it has rid itself from heresies and mis-interpretations (like the crusades, slavery, miscegenation laws). Of course, it worries me because I can only wonder how far these people are going to go with their eyes closed forever listening to the siren song of "christian values".

 
At 12:43 PM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger Mr. Wilson said...

you know, upon further thought, i have to say that the balance of power in this country has always been a drunken staggar...the reactionaries have pulled us back a few steps from time to time luring us by appealing to fear or a false sense of nostalgia, but we have always eventually marched forward because of the incessant pressure of progressives like you II. I guess we all have a part to play...

 
At 3:23 PM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger Reign of Reason said...

Well put Mr. Wilson...

I certainly hope the play eventually beings to move forward again. The current act is becoming tiresome.

 
At 7:42 PM, November 02, 2005 , Blogger jj said...

Great post. I have tried in repeatedly to understand how the so called Christian Right squares things like war, the death penalty, discrimination etc. You have laid out our history nicely. Good moral times huh.

They insist this is a Christian Nation and the founding fathers were Christian. Rick is absolutely right they were mostly Deist.

I asked on RCs blog how they squared these issues with there faith and FAR was the only one to answer and said the Christian Alliance is a lefty org and they would even say Jesus was a liberal.


Many of my early posts were on this subject. The Christian Right will just rationalize and spin anything thrown at them. Facts mean nothing.

I think organized religion is simply a business and they try to increase market share (members) for money and power. That is not to say people are not true to their faith but the powers that be are more about the money. rant over

 
At 1:39 AM, November 03, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

JJ & Mr. Wilson -

You hit the nail on the head. This twisting of Christian rhetoric really is going too far and we need to push the pendulum in the other direction.

 
At 5:29 PM, November 04, 2005 , Blogger Roseville Conservative said...

Nice Job All!!!

I am a bigot and a sexist because I dare to believe that Jesus Christ is my savior!!!

I guess this means that I am a neanderthol idiot that has drank spiritual kool-aid.

People do stupid stuff in the name of God all the time.

Equating slavery to Christianity is absurd, we Christians came to terms with the fact that slavery was immoral and corrected the problem!!!

With the trash on TV and the trash in the newstands, it is totally ridiculous to purport that us on the religious right control this country.

If the religious right controlled America, there would be no debate over "Seperation of Church and State", or over what constitutes a marriage!

Silence over injustices... Prejudice and Sexism are not Christian Values. Introduce me to a racist or sexist bigot and I will hammer them with scripture...

So to all the read this post and commented on it... enjoy this breath of fresh air. I am a committed Evangelical Christian and what I just wrote stands on its' own merits.

If you like, come light me up on my blog... I have a ton of liberal followers...

What I ask is drop the brush. Not all "Christians" are nimrods. Take a few minutes out and debate with me and you might be suprised!!!

Regards,

Aaron AKA Roseville Conservative

 
At 4:06 PM, November 05, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

RC -

You wrote "Equating slavery to Christianity is absurd" and "not all Christians are nimrods." This post said neither of those things and, if that is what you took away from this post, then you missed the point entirely and I will not bother addressing the rest of the points you raise.

It is worth pointing out that you have the luxury of being a Republican Evangelical in California where people are relatively progressive and tolerant. Your threat to pummel a racist or sexist with scripture will be best tested when you decide to become an active Republican in Alabama. Let me know how it goes when you pummel the the David Duke supporters with scriptures.

 
At 12:03 PM, November 09, 2005 , Blogger St Wendeler said...

Slavery and racism are immoral... and you should remember that it was the most fervent Christians who objected to the practice throughout our history. Abolitionists weren't some sort of secular force - they were compelled by their Christian faith to force their government to act. It was northern Christians that traveled south to Birmingham to march with Dr. Martin Luther King...

And today racism isn't confined to the deep south or Republicans, either. I have seen more racism on the streets of many northern cities than in the back waters of the South. I've heard some of the most racist comments out of supposedly "progressive" Californians... But, feel free to continue in your stereotypes - as I'm sure you'll admit, stereotypes are always accurate.

Regards,
St Wendeler
Another Rovian Conspiracy

 
At 12:53 PM, November 10, 2005 , Blogger Intellectual Insurgent said...

It's not about stereotyping. I lived in Boston and experienced first hand the racism of the supposed progressives of the north. The point of the post was that it is Republicans who are saying that we should return to some utopian Christian past.

Can you tell us when that utopian past existed?

 
At 1:11 AM, November 12, 2005 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

Wow,

First there is a reason why average (laymen) people like Rick and others are unable to read the bible and understand it.

Many Biblical Scholars study for decades and continue to find enlightenment and understanding, but most of all we are only able to gain a true understanding when we ask with humility, and if many people are "know it alls" when they read it, then they will be confused on purpose. God does not want them to be condemmed for ridiculements when they don't really know. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" could also be "Father forgive them for they know not what they read."

St. Paul was like Rick and he turned out to be quite a religious guy. :)

I am amazed at the tone of hate I feel from some of these posts at Church going people.

There are many good explanations that are perfectly understandable if one truly has an open mind and is humble enough to ask for spiritual guidence when reading the bible.

I think David Duke and other people who misuse the words of the Scriptures to forge their own evil ways are going to "Have a Lot of Splaining to do Lucy..."

I also think that most of the Underground Railroad and other great Christians in the North were the ones who helped correct the evil practice of Slavery.

I believe that it was the Religious folks who helped push through the Civil Rights act of 1964.

"Johnson pulled every string he knew, and had the civil rights leaders mount a massive lobbying campaign, including inundating the Capitol with religious leaders of all faiths and colors. ref here

I think Rosa Parks was a great woman and most of my Christian friends do to. She had the courage to stand up to bigotry.

I have found that bigotry is alive and well in all walks of life, both in secular and religious places.


I wish we could all realize that there are some people of Christian faith who might have something of value to offer and are actually nice people with a big heart, even if they are Christians.

:)

FAR.

 
At 1:14 AM, November 12, 2005 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

Oops,

I forgot to mention that religious bigotry is also not a good thing.


:)


FAR.

 
At 1:24 AM, November 12, 2005 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

ii,

As usual i will try to answer the tough questions.

"Can you tell us when that utopian past existed?"

I am not one for reading someone else's mind and do not know where that comment comes from but I will try to answer what I think some are saying when they make similar comments.

I believe they are saying that the Nations was much more free in the early days of our Nation, and that except for Slavery and Tarriffs we had a truly remarkable country.

I think the only reason that the Civil rights acts were so hard to pass until 1964 was that there were well intentioned SCOTUS folks who felt that businesses had the right to serve whomever they liked or didn't like. There are many Libertarians who can understand that perspective.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was about that very thing...."Businesses must not refuse service to anyone."

:)


FAR.

 
At 9:09 AM, November 12, 2005 , Blogger Free Agency Rules said...

jj,

Thanks for the source to Four of the founding fathers. It was an interesting read, some of it I already knew, but I did find one disturbing "misleading" and possibly deceitful, (attempts to deceive can be called lying), statement where he attempts to say that we are not a nation of Christians..."Even the most optimistic Gallup pole shows that barely 1/3 of the U.S. population claims to be "born again". Interestingly" (I guess he thinks that if you don’t belong to his group of Born Again Christians, then you must not be Christian, how insulting!)

Isn't it interesting that he would not use the poll that would ask the question "Do you consider yourself a Christian?" Would not that be the question you would ask if you were wanting to know what percentage of people thought they believed in the principals of Christianity?

Here is a poll that shows over 85% of the U.S. consider themselves Christian. stats

My guess as to why so many claim that the principals of Christianity is what this nation was founded upon, (now notice I am not claiming that the founders were mostly Christian, merely that the principals were), is evidenced by:

- a Letter that John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813 where he was saying that this was in fact the basis for the system of government in America…
The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite....And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: . . . Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System. - Lester J. Capon, ed., The Adams-Jefferson Letters 2 vols. (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), 2:339-40
- And when Adams wrote: “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue equity and humanity…” - John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, Ed., (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) III:421, dairy entry for July 26, 1796.
- And many other early records that show that most of the framers believed in God, (most were Theists), and many believed in Christian principals and above all they wanted a nation that had no “National Church”, but yet one that recognized God. A secular country is not anti-religious, it merely chooses to not recognize a particular religion by definition.
Well there you have it.
Probably will be ignored by the Christian haters out there, but then all you can do is present your facts and let those who are open minded ponder it with real intent to know and not intent to start putting it down as quickly as they can.
I think I will post on this…


:)


FAR.

 
At 1:55 PM, November 15, 2005 , Blogger Possum said...

Hey II y'all sure do get some extreme stuff over here! Let me help your gaggle of high minded carpetbaggers see things a bit differently:

"Red state people showing their rebel flag..." you will find that 90% of southern rednecks are conservative democrats who voted Clinton, Gore,Kerry. Weird as that sounds, they just don't trust Republicans. They still see the party of FDR like momma and daddy taught them to. The dumber they are, the more likely they vote democrat because republican is for rich people. I don't see many rebel flags on our local McMansions but I do see them on the singlewides and pickup trucks.

It was always the Democrats of the south fighting against ending slavery and granting rights to Americans of color. Try to prove to me it was ever a Republican-initative to fight against repressive conditions. I welcome the evidence to support assertions from Rick & Mr. Wilson to the contray.

As far a Christians and slavery/segregation: one has to deeply speculate what the individual thought. Keep in mind that slavery ownership was like having a Hummer SUV is today: some would like to but most could not afford it. Not like every southern Christian owned a slave or spit on black people.

Remember the average joe was racist because they were taught to be racist by their parents. It is hard to un-learn bad habits. I know this myself as I come from a long line of Democrat racist rednecks.

As for "religious bias" I have a brief logical analysis of the history and content of the Muslim religion on my blog in the Tuesday, Sept. 20th articles about the Old Testament and Jesus in the Koran. You might be surprised.

 
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